Episode 3- "Momming," Shaming & Vulnerability Hangovers with Amanda Harrington

Linda Heeler: 0:05

Welcome to the normal lies podcast episode number three. In this episode I talked to Amanda Harrington, who is a wife, a mom to a two and a half year old son and somehow finds time to lead a Product Strategy Team as a senior product manager at an international tech company. Amanda is passionate about combating the climate crisis, as well as non toxic living and personal growth. Amanda loves exploring, learning and paying it forward, you'll soon find out why she and her family are very special. To me. This was a great example of a hard conversation. At least for me, I think you'll understand why I had a vulnerability hangover. afterwards. Here we go. If you're looking for a one size fits all easy approach to changing your life. This is not the podcast for you. However, if you are delighted by tough questions, love hard and sometimes messy conversations, then you are in the right place. I'm Linda Heeler, professional certified coach and host of the normal lies podcast. During my 10 years of coaching, I have helped dozens of clients change their lives simply by questioning the beliefs they thought were true. Now it's your turn to uncover the normal lies in your life. Hi, Amanda.

Amanda Harrington: 1:42

Hi, mom. I was like, I'm not sure if I'm supposed to say it now.

Linda Heeler: 1:50

I think it's okay. I think you can reveal Yes. The cats out of the bag. Yes. So yes, my guest today is my daughter. And I'm really excited to have her here because she is probably one of the most brilliant people I know. I'm not too proud ever. Yeah, no. So anyway, I'm just really I am really grateful that you said yes. When I asked you to be my first guest. And you know why my first guest? Hey, it's my podcast, I get to decide who I have on it right? And who better than my firstborn? She's got a lot to say. So let's get to it. So Amanda, first of all, tell us just a little bit about you, and maybe share a time when there was a belief or a lie in your life that you thought was absolutely true. And then what happened when you learned that it wasn't?

Amanda Harrington: 2:55

I would say that the thing that I was born into thinking, and I guess a lot of kids, their innocent minds are born into thinking is that Earth is an infinite resource. There's just this vast amount of water and clean air, and you just are in your own little world and everything is so big to begin with. But learning the idea that animals can go extinct is just it was traumatic when I realized that the last of something could die, and then not to get all morbid off right off the bat. But the last time something could die, and then that's it, there's nothing else. And then that kind of goes into thinking about death. And parents dying is a huge thing that I realized happens. And I went through a huge amount of processing of that information. Probably when I was in second, third, fourth grade, worrying about my parents dying. What would I do if my parents died when I was young? You know, that was very traumatic. I know you remember me worrying about that. And pets dying. Our cat Stanley died when I was in third grade. And I think that really struck a chord. And that just kind of leads me to the story about Stanley dying. We're getting pretty deep pretty fast here. Sorry. But this all kind of ties back to death and infinite resources. And Stanley, he was sick. And you told me to say goodbye to him in the morning. I went off to school said goodbye to him. I came back and he was he was gone. He had he had passed. So I think that having young kids, it's important to teach them about death and have them witness death. So I think that I think that's the end of the podcast. We don't have to talk about anything else, right? That's pretty heavy stuff.

Linda Heeler: 4:55

It is and I got to tell you, that brings up a lot of money. Mom stuff for me, because I remember that. And that is one of my regrets. As a parent. I really feel like I didn't handle that well with your kids or with Stanley. Yeah, he was really sick. And I had never been with an animal that was euthanized. And I made the decision to drop him off at the vet. And when the vet called and said, Yeah, there's nothing that we can do for him. What should we do? And we decided to have him euthanized. And they said, do you want to be here? Or should we just do it? And I just said, Just do it. And to this day, I regret that. And I mean, like, I'm getting emotional about this. Because it was it was very traumatizing for me to think about him and not being with people that he loved at the end, and the upset in yours and your brother's eyes when you came home, and he was just gone. That was not a good that. I've had to forgive myself for that. And I do, but I learned from it. And I think we did better after that. For sure. So So what do you remember after that with our pets?

Amanda Harrington: 6:25

Yeah, that was the first time in my life, I remember being mad at you, like really mad. And knowing that I was probably right to be mad about it, I knew that you made a mistake, which was, again, just a very coming of age experience to have that stuck with me since. But since then, you I remember you you admitting that it was a mistake, even you know, at that young age, I think that you realize pretty soon after it happened. And also, it didn't happen again, we had tons of animals after and every time there was just this transparency and openness. And even now I have animals living outside of the house. Now you're still extremely transparent about even just like vet visits and stuff. And I know that I'm not going to be surprised by that anymore. And what's interesting is, even my husband, he has not witnessed the experience of a pet dying beside him up until my cat Olivia passed away. And he did not want to be in the room when it happened. I explained to him that it's not about us and our selves witnessing a painful experience. It's about the animal, seeing the things that they love most. And the people that they love most at the very end and being there for the animal. He was like, Oh my gosh, that's a beautiful thing. So he and I have a dog and when she is in that place, hopefully not for a long time. But when she's in that place, he will have had already had a little bit of practice at that and be much more able to handle it on such a scale. I think that it was a really good learning experience. I think we had to go through it in order for it to mean as much as it does as a family. And it's, I think that I mean, it's stuck with me, but I'm not traumatized by it. As a mom,

Linda Heeler: 8:25

what did you learn from that experience Now, moving forward with your own son,

Amanda Harrington: 8:31

transparency, even at a young age, you know, he's two and a half now. And there was a deer that got hit at the end of our road a few weeks back, and it's laying on the side of the road still, because it's cold out. So it's still there. He said when we were walking, what's that? And I told him, and he's two and a half. So he doesn't really understand the concept. But I don't want to lie to him. And also I don't want him I don't want to teach him that death is this really scary thing. So just being consistent and somewhat unemotional, like it's sad, but it's a part of life and explaining it to them without that up and down roller coaster of emotion.

Linda Heeler: 9:17

This brings me into another question. Now that you are a mom of a two beautiful two and a half year old little boy. What did you think motherhood would be like? And how is it different than what you thought it would be?

Unknown: 9:32

How is it the same? And how is it different? I thought when I

Amanda Harrington: 9:37

became a mom that I would all of a sudden have all of these new superpowers and I would feel extremely different that I wouldn't feel like a kid anymore. I thought that I would stop feeling certain ways and start feeling other ways. And pretty much that I would change completely. I've read a bunch of articles about how you know there's mom brain And the brain is literally rewired. Once you have a child to do certain things, and certain parts of the brain are turned on, I learned that, yes, there's a period of time while you're pregnant. And then after you have the child and I, I breastfed for a year, and I felt very physically different and mentally different through those times, partially because of the hormones and everything happening physiologically with me, but I was thinking about it the other day, and I kind of feel like I did before I got pregnant. It's taken a while, but I feel back to kind of where I am. I'm kind of enhanced. I've like leveled up. I'm not different. I'm just a better part of or a better version of myself. I'm a more expanded version of myself say more about that. What do you mean by more expanded How? Well I'm still I still feel like a kid or not a kid, but a child, right? Like I am my parents child, if I go and put my my swimming hoodie on from high school, and I put my hood up, I've got that same teenage angst, I can feel like different times in my life again. But the expanding piece of it is, I have more skills, I've unlocked a certain skill set, or a certain, like I said, superpower, I've enabled certain things that were already within me that being a mother having a child, going through all of the challenges of pregnancy and raising a very small child, that you require super powers in order to get through it physically, not just physically, but also mentally. But at the end of the day, when, when all of the craziness passes, I am not different. I am the same person.

Linda Heeler: 11:53

So tell me what is your what's your superpower? What are your superpowers? Are your your best superpower? What would you say it is?

Amanda Harrington: 12:03

My best superpower is making my son laugh. In fact, it makes my husband a little bit jealous. The laugh I get out of my son. I mean, don't get me wrong. My husband's funny too. But I get a certain gut laugh from my son that no one else can get. And I make booboos feel all better, as soon as I give them a kiss. And he's at that age where he just wants his mama all the time. So cuddles are my superpower and I'm crying. I'm doing a slow drain cry from my eyes. You can't hear it, but it's happening. You know what it's like you have a son. You had a little boy. I'm sure it's the same with with a daughter too. But there's something about it, where I'm just like, Oh my gosh, I'm literally one of two of the most important things in his life, which is me and my husband. So it's pretty magical.

Linda Heeler: 13:02

Yes, it is. And it never changes. It never changes. So that kind of brings us into. You're not just a wife and a mom, but you're a working mom. And so tell me about that. What is it like being a wife and a mom with a full time job? What's been surprising about that?

Amanda Harrington: 13:28

There's two directions that it's been surprising. On one hand, it's surprising how little time I have to myself during a day. Because I have these two sides of guilt. I have work guilt, and I have mom guilt and they're constantly fighting each other. So I have especially not that this episode is going to be about all about COVID. But especially at home, it does make it challenging working from home because my son is at home, and I am working at home. So turning that off is extremely hard, but I think it was it's still hard even before COVID. But anyway, turning the mom brain off in the morning to go to work. And then in the evening turning the work brain off to become mom again. It's that is surprising how hard that can be. Especially after working eight to 10 hours a day and having to turn work brain off and then going and being mom. I actually notice my voice actually gets lower when I'm working because I work in a very male dominated environment. So I'm working with a bunch of older men who have low voices, and I'm kind of almost not even on purpose matching that pitch. But then as soon as I get around my son who's got this little cute voice, my intonation is everywhere, and I'm Trying to make him laugh, my voice gets super high. So that's a good kind of way to describe the ups and downs in the vast differences in the way that my day goes, right? So it's very serious and business driven. And then it's how to not be serious in front of my son, you know how to have fun. So they're just very opposite. And sometimes it's exhausting. And I was surprised at how waking up going to work coming home, or walking out into my home, and becoming mom, and then it's bedtime. And by the time it's his bedtime, I'm exhausted and ready to go to bed. So when do I shower? When do I paint my nails? When do I have a glass of wine to myself? It's, you know, obviously, for single moms, I can't even imagine I have so much respect for them. And I think that there should be so much more help society is systemically puts in place to help single moms, because I don't know how to do it without my husband. But even with two parents in the house, it's extremely challenging, especially with a two year old. But

Linda Heeler: 16:12

and I'm really curious, because you've worked for a couple of companies, and you work with women who have families, and you work with men who have families, too. How are the companies that you are aware of and the employees? How are they doing? And how could they do better? How could they help their employees who have families, especially the moms?

Amanda Harrington: 16:39

I would say, Actually, I would argue that question a little bit, because I think that not especially the moms, but I think we should, as a society, look at it more equally. And it should be family, or parent, or caretaker? What if it's a single dad, what if it's a situation where the mom needs to work in the dad camp, I think that we should look at it more holistically. And a lot of Northern European countries do that, where they give the families 18 months or two years, sometimes more, and they give the whole family parental leave, and you can split it up, however you need to. So if it's all mom, then that's fine. Or if it's half and half. And it's really based at the government level instead of the individual employers level. I think that is something that the US could benefit from an improve on. I think that we just also have to think about it not just at the company level, because a single company could do a great job of giving their employees benefits extending state benefits and government benefits. And we've but at the end of the day, we're only going to see change if it is systemic and transcends throughout all of our culture, because the US is productivity driven, right. So my company could give me five years of maternity leave, but I'm not going to take it, I hardly took the minimum amount that they gave me because I was oh, I gotta get back to work. I gotta make sure people don't think that I'm lazy and that I'm just trying to milk my maternity leave for all it's worth. That goes far beyond any individual employer. And that just is in every nook and cranny of our culture and society. So we need to reprioritize what we see is important. And the other thing is, the US spend so much time looking busy. What are we working smarter, and not harder? It seems like a lot of us are just spinning our wheels. But are we actually getting a lot done. That's a whole nother conversation. But I think that we reward people that stay that extra hour that stay till six instead of leave right at five. I have co workers across the pond in Europe who are leaving at 430 on the.to. Go pick up their kids from school. There's no flexibility on that. There's more flexibility on their work schedule than their child's schedule. And that's the way I think that we should go with us.

Linda Heeler: 19:31

I just want to say, I appreciate you kind of calling me out on that question. And that's one thing I love about you and your brother is that you're not afraid to speak your mind. But I didn't really answer your question. No, you did. But you did. No, you did because I come to this conversation in every conversation from a certain generation because of how I was raised in the experiences that I had. I have come to learn over the years that every generation has benefit to share. And so that's one thing I love. And I know your father and I tried to raise you that speak your mind. And we may not always agree, but you have a right to your own opinion. And so I love that what you just said, You called me out, it's like, well, this isn't a mom thing. This shouldn't just be a mom thing, or even toward the mom thing. This should be a parental thing. You're absolutely right. And so I really appreciate your pointing that out. I'm happy for that. I have another question beyond this, because one thing you brought up is what other people think. And so I want to get into that whole mom shaming thing. But before we hit that, I want to, I want to kind of finish up this part of it. Because you're talking about a government policy, country wide government policy that would extend parental leave. What do you think the impact if that was passed tomorrow? What would the impact of that be on our families? Today? That's a really good question.

Amanda Harrington: 21:21

That's a really good question.

Linda Heeler: 21:25

Well, let me ask you this, because you also said that we have a whole different mindset here in this country. So I'm wondering, even if we had that, would it even be used? Because it would be frowned upon?

Amanda Harrington: 21:41

That's why I paused, does that just mean that the kids are gonna be put in front of the screen? My first reaction to your question was, oh, we'll know each other more, well, we will be closer, we'll be more connected. And then I'm thinking but if you just go straight from giving us more time, are we going to use that time to build our relationships and make more robust and more meaningful relationships are we just going to put our kids in front of the TV so we can scroll on the internet, on social media and such, I don't want this to be a bashing of the United States. But there are things that are connected to that, you know, like there, there are value, family value, things that I think that are interconnected. And it needs to it needs to be a holistic approach to changing the way we spend our time who we spend our time with. This goes back to you know, spending time outside, getting back to nature, clean air, getting the kids outside more, I think is super important. But this kind of goes into parent shaming, too, right? I think I know what's right. But I'm really just projecting what I think is good parenting. So yeah, that's a really hard question. I'm, I need to think about that more a little bit.

Linda Heeler: 23:10

And it's okay to have more questions and answers, I think.

Amanda Harrington: 23:14

Yeah, I'm definitely not a parenting expert. I think new at this.

Linda Heeler: 23:20

And this whole podcast is about the the normal lies that we have been born into, that have become so normalized. And so that, I think is one of them. Is that whole, I don't know, American work ethic. Yes, we we want to work. But it's also important to take time off. It's also important to take care of ourselves. And if we're working all the time, it's it's hard to connect with our families. It's hard to connect with nature, it's hard to connect and be present with what's going on around us. So I think it's okay. And that's what this podcast is all about is questioning. So we don't have to have all the answers, but we're curious about it. What would the world look like? What would our country look like if we did shift that mindset of I have to be producing, because that's the generation I came from and that I have struggled with it? If I am not working? If I'm not doing something, then I'm lazy. So I think it's a I think it's a fair conversation.

Amanda Harrington: 24:33

I think that you just went over like 15 episodes that you could have different topics that you could have, I completely agree with you. And another point of that is you know, they they you said something about your generation and it being a part of coming from your generation. And I would say they always say that millennials are lazy or they are entitled and I do not experience that either. That could be a whole nother episode that that you go down. There's so many topics, mom. But yeah, that's a great point.

Linda Heeler: 25:12

Okay, so let's circle back we wanted to talk about or I wanted to talk about, I was curious because you mentioned the whole mom shaming thing. Tell me what it really what is mom shaming? Give me your opinion on that. I'm just really curious what your experience and your opinion on mom shaming, have you experienced it?

Amanda Harrington: 25:36

Oh, yeah, I've experienced it. I do it to myself every day, multiple times a day. Mom shaming in, from what I know. And what I've read, mom shaming is judging the way moms or parents this goes back to it's really parent shaming. The way moms are parents, parents, their children, I would consider it a form of bullying. Could it be either soft bullying, where it's passive aggressive, or behind people's backs, or it could be straight up aggressive, but it's basically just parents criticizing the way that other parents are parenting. And like I said, I do it to myself more than anyone else does it to me. I'm very critical of the decisions that I make with my son. And I actually have done reading on it because it's that much of a problem. I've read that studies show that of moms that felt criticized in this study, 37% of moms said they were shamed by their own parents. And Mom, you have done it to me. Oh, my goodness, okay, no apology necessary. You have already apologized for it. But if I go through some of the examples of mom shaming, you're gonna be like, oops, yeah. Because they're subtle, usually. And a lot of the times, they come from a place of love, they think that it's oftentimes comes across as advice. But it can be perceived as, Oh, my gosh, I'm not doing a great job, or I'm making the wrong decisions, I think one of the things you have to do is you have to be careful of what you read, when you're reading articles. Because this one article can actually be mom shaming you, if they say you should be feeding your child only organic food, and you should not be giving your child any screentime. That is actually a form of mom shaming. And the first time that I came across, in person, not in articles, but somebody actually mom shaming me. And a lot of moms say that the first time that they are marching is around breastfeeding, just by preaching to someone about breastfeeding, and how great it is, you can actually be mom shaming them. So other forms include questioning milestones, oh, is your child walking yet? Oh, they should be at this stage, commenting on whether on the choice to work, or to stay at home. That's another form of mom shaming, correcting how parent, what decisions a parent makes for their children? And then also saying things like you should or I wouldn't on pushing values like that. Those are the things I've done a little reading, as you can tell.

Linda Heeler: 28:37

I think you bring up a really good point with those of us who are parents who have kids, and we have grandkids that I know personally, I try really hard not to give advice. And there are times when I really want to, and I'll say, um, can I give you my advice? I try and ask before I give it but I know I'm not always good at that. Yeah, I really appreciate it. Yeah, this is a really uncomfortable conversation for me. I will tell you being put on the spot, and I want people to know that we have this type of relationship that if I do something, I want you to call me out on it. I don't want it to fester. And have you get resentful of me, both you and your brother. And so I just want people to know that that we have that type of relationship and that if you bug me and say hey, you're bugging me, or I'm tired and cranky, I can't have this conversation right now. So I think that we have a really close relationship because of that. It's really hard again, coming from my generation where if you made a mistake, it's bad. You make a mistake to be called out on something. Having to go Yeah, you know what, you're right. I did that. And I am sorry. I think it's a really important thing to actually do. And I have a feeling we have a special guest that just showed up.

Amanda Harrington: 30:13

Yeah, we do. Yeah, he does. Is that the house? Where's your father? I'm gonna need to take a break. It's okay. I think we're almost done. I think we just want to do like a little wrap up, and we and we should be good.

Linda Heeler: 30:34

This episode of the normal lies podcast is brought to you by your earth. Did you know that food is the single largest category of material placed in municipal landfills, where it emits methane, a powerful greenhouse gas. According to the US EPA, municipal solid waste landfills are the third largest source of human related methane emissions in the US, accounting for approximately 14.1% of the emissions. What can we do to help reduce these food waste related emissions? Try buying only what you'll eat before it spoils. Use a food tracking log to keep track of the amount of food you throwaway, which can help you reduce the amount of waste in the future. Consider composting your food scraps. Or if you're not able to do that, look to see if there's a community composting near you. My family uses our local community composting company. So if you live in the Rochester, New York area, go to impact Earth orosi.com for more information. So how should we end this?

Amanda Harrington: 31:56

With a tall whiskey? Like that?

Linda Heeler: 32:01

I like that ask it yet. No, I like that. I think I'll keep that. Now, should we have this with a tall whiskey?

Amanda Harrington: 32:09

After that could be your your at the end of every single episode? Oh, I like the question you asked me about. What did you learn from childhood that has been helpful to raising your child?

Linda Heeler: 32:23

Oh, and you know what? I didn't ask the the finale questions either.

Amanda Harrington: 32:28

And then there's also what did you wish your parents had taught you differently? Okay, so all right, let's just keep doing those. Okay. All right. And then and then we'll go into the finale. Okay.

Linda Heeler: 32:39

What did you learn from your childhood or your parents that has been helpful in raising your child.

Amanda Harrington: 32:49

So a few things that I have learned, you should be your child's ally and not their enemy, you're not against your child, you're on your child's team. So treat them like an adult unless they're acting like a child, treat them like an adult. Another thing that I learned that I use, often with my husband, not with my husband, but I talked to my husband about this concept a lot is never calling your child a bad boy, because they will become what you label them, right. So if you say bad boy, bad boy, they will become a bad boy. But if you say, you did something bad, but that doesn't make you a bad person. You said that to my brother and I all the time. Well, not all the time, because we aren't bad all the time. But you you never called us a bad boy or a bad girl. You never labeled us as something you just said that thing you did was bad. But that does not define who you are. And I think that's very important. Other things that I learned from childhood, just play with your kids, just be with them, spend time with them. When you didn't have phones back then. So it was a little bit easier. But nowadays, put your phone down, cuddle with them be on their level, you don't need to have an agenda, just be with them. You can make a game out of anything, you don't even need a toy, just being there, the two of you, and then creating an environment of trust that allows you to your child to tell you anything or open up about anything. And that leads me to this other thing and this final answer to your question, which is something that you and dad learned back, probably when I was a teenager and then Spencer was like, maybe 10 or 11 or something, but I wanted to start telling you things and you had this policy that anything that we told you or dad that you guys didn't keep secrets from each other. So you would Tell the other one. And that was keeping me from talking to you about female stuff, or Spencer about guy stuff. And you guys adjusted your policy. So I could go to you and say, I'm going to tell you this thing. But I don't want you to tell that you and dad figured out that if it's important enough that he should know, then you would tell us that you were going to tell him, but that you and dad had enough trust to to say, okay, it's okay to have some secrets about your kids. Because that trust is there. And that doesn't need to know every detail about like, me becoming a woman or you know what I knew. I thought that was really cool. When you came to us and said, like, you can tell me a secret. And if you don't want me to tell Dad, I won't tell dad. Unless I have to tell dad, but I thought that was really cool. Very cool.

Linda Heeler: 35:59

All right. I've got one more question before we do our wrap up questions here. But I gotta tell you, I'm feeling a little vulnerable here, because we've talked about some stuff. And anyway, but I'm gonna ask the question Anyway,

Amanda Harrington: 36:17

you have the ability to edit anything you want?

Linda Heeler: 36:22

Yes, I do. But it's the hardest stuff. It's the hard stuff that I shouldn't edit that I really want to I know. Okay, some but I'm gonna ask this question, because I put it down, as I thought it would be important. And that is what do you wish that your parents had taught you? Or done differently? And how could they have done better

Amanda Harrington: 36:47

to fight as adults? That,

Linda Heeler: 36:51

what does that mean?

Amanda Harrington: 36:53

Growing up, our family always had heated but healthy philosophical debates about politics, or the environment or history, anything, or ethics ethics was a huge thing, too. But I never saw you and dad fight. A couple times I saw we would be in the kitchen and wondering view would be usually it was you would be visibly frustrated. This is very rare. It was like just a handful of times maybe. And you would be like, dear, can you go into the other room, and then you would close the door and Spencer and I would definitely have our ear to the door to hear if you guys were yelling, and we couldn't hear you yelling, we could just hear talking. And so like, I never heard you guys yell at each other. And the first time I ever witnessed two adults fighting, I was at a friend's house. And it was terrifying. I was scared. So I developed this idea that people in love shouldn't fight or be mad at each other. And if there was fighting, then there was a huge problem. I was in a couple of relationships in my teens and early 20s, where we disagreed a lot. But my parents taught me to have a backbone. So I would stand up for myself, but it ended up turning into unhealthy bites. So those were on the other extreme. I didn't know there was something in between it was either no fighting, or extreme fighting. Right now I'm working on striking a balance in between that because my husband and I don't fight that often, we act more as if what I was experiencing in my childhood. But that means a lot of suppression of frustration, instead of addressing the actual problems. And they end up like you said festering, and then turns into every once in a while there's blow up. So I want her son to see us work through real issues. And problem, solve our differences, and just have a little bit more balance. Similar to going back to the whole like, topic of death, it exists, it's there. Let's figure out how to cope with it and how to get through it. But know that it's there and being aware of it. So there have been in the recent months, a few situations where I could have said we shouldn't be having this conversation in front of our son. But you know, as long as there's no swearing as long as there's no abuse, as long as the topic is appropriate for the age group, then I think that it's important for children to see their parents work through problems. hope that's not too bad.

Linda Heeler: 39:49

I think you're 100% correct. And I agree with you, because your father and I had different upbringings and one of us had An upbringing where we didn't see our parents fight. And the other one had the upbringing where their parents did fight. And it was not a healthy fight. We didn't know how to do it in the right way. We're still learning to this day, even though we've been together for a lot of years.

Amanda Harrington: 40:22

Are you doing the math right now?

Linda Heeler: 40:23

Yeah, I got to stop and think, you know, bend together for a long time. But anyway, we're still learning, we're still learning how to have constructive arguments. One of us wants to shut down because of the other one's mad, we don't want to and the other one is just trying to figure out how to have that constructive argument. And it's okay, it'd be upset and angry. The nice thing is with our relationship, we don't seem to be angry, both angry at the same time and upset at the same time. And we try not to trigger each other if we can. That's definitely helpful. So yeah, I totally get that. I think that that's really great that you have figured that out, and that you're going to try and figure out what works for you and your husband to model how you can have a disagreement and not be disagreeable or not be abusive, and create something from it. So I think that's, I think that's really helpful. All right, are you ready? I want you to finish these sentences. The most important thing that you learned, or the best piece of advice you received when you were younger, was

Amanda Harrington: 41:47

it gets better. Even as a even as a young child, I wanted to be an adult. And you and dad recognized when I was young, that I'd enjoy myself more as an adult. I don't know, some kids really love being kids. I'm wondering how did you know that I would think you would get better I had a rough from like eight years to like, 12 years, I just had a rough go at it. I was bullied pretty badly. I don't know, I just I'm wondering, you told me that I would like high school more than Middle School. And you told me when I was in high school that I'd like college, high school, and some people they peak in high school. And you just kind of knew all along that I was just gonna peek a little bit late. I was gonna enjoy life more later. And I'm just wondering, there's a question for you, Mom, why did you think that?

Linda Heeler: 42:42

Well, just because you had such a strong personality, you knew your mind, you knew what you liked. What I saw was that you weren't gonna just fit in with the popular kids. Because you were going to call them on their stuff. And you weren't afraid to either. You had the courage to step out and say, Hey, this is not okay. Or I don't agree with you. I knew that middle school, in junior high are so hard when it comes to peer pressure. But I knew that those would be tough years for you. Because you weren't going to play by anybody's rules. You're just like, hey, this isn't fair. I'm not going to do this. And I remember you coming home and saying, Oh my gosh, so and so didn't speak to me yesterday, we were best friends. And today, she wouldn't sit with me in the cafeteria. And you just couldn't figure out why. Unfortunately, that was the way it was middle school and junior high. And I knew that as you got older, that the kids would grow up. And then you would find your own people, you would find the people that you fit with. And it would get easier as you got older. So that's that's why I said that. Yep. makes complete sense. Yeah. Okay. What is one lie that you wish you discovered sooner?

Amanda Harrington: 44:09

The one that I had thought about was you don't become a new person. When you become a new mom, you just expand? That was the one that I that's the biggest one that I thought about.

Linda Heeler: 44:21

Okay. All right. The thing that makes you authentically you is

Amanda Harrington: 44:29

I focus on the possibilities. I'm not necessarily a straight up, optimist and hope for things to happen. But I see obstacles and I tried to, like I said, get around them, get over them. I don't stew on things. And I think that Yeah, focusing on the possibilities in the long term goals is one of the things that makes me authentically me.

Linda Heeler: 44:54

Nice. If you had a magic wand that would make everyone in the world believe just one One thing that would be,

Amanda Harrington: 45:02

we're bringing this back full circle to the first topic that I brought up, which is that whole realization that the world is an infinite resource. So I would say if I could tell the whole world one thing is that we are on the verge of experiencing numerous tipping points due to human activity over the past 150 years. And if we don't take extreme action now, we could push systems via ecosystems or climate systems or any other system into completely new states, making them inhospitable, recurrent species in humans. And so I would tell people, this is our home, take care of it. Like it's your your home. And if you need an uplifting way to understand that, go watch the Disney movie, Wally, because it does a great job of explaining that message and that need to both adults and children alike. So there is my my plug.

Linda Heeler: 46:07

Well, Amanda Harrington, Amanda Heeler Harrington, thank you so much for agreeing to be on my podcast. And more importantly, thank you for the honor and the privilege it is to be your mom. I love you so much. cry. Don't cry.

Amanda Harrington: 46:25

I love you, mom. You're the best mom.

Linda Heeler: 46:27

I love you too, honey.

Amanda Harrington: 46:28

I mean,

Linda Heeler: 46:29

I mean it to

Amanda Harrington: 46:32

thank you for having me on the podcast. I, generally, other than work meetings, I find public speaking terrifying. I hope that I didn't okay. But thank you so much for having me as your as your guest. And I wish you all the success in this podcast going forward, and I will listen to every single episode and critique every single.

Linda Heeler: 47:04

Yes, I know you were getting my notes. I love it. All right. Now I'm sure you see why I had a vulnerability hangover from this conversation. But I'm grateful that we're able to have these hard conversations because every time that we do, it strengthens our relationships. Some of the gold that I took away from this talk was, first of all transparency, I think we should be honest with our children as much as possible. And at that level that fits their age. I always told my kids I would tell them the truth. If they asked me a question, I figured if they're old enough to ask the question, they're old enough to hear the truth, and again, at the appropriate age level. The second thing is modeling. Admitting our mistakes. I think this is really important because if our children see us defending deflecting or berating ourselves for our mistakes, then they will likely end up doing the same mistakes are the gateway to creativity if we are so afraid of making them it can be paralyzing, leaving us afraid to try anything. One thing My husband is really good at is having a sense of humor about himself. I never did because I got teased about everything. It's been more difficult for me to learn to laugh at myself. It definitely takes practice, but it has allowed more joy in my life and it makes life not quite so heavy. And then lastly, for parents of adult children, my advice is hold the advice unless it's asked for this is good advice for anyone. I practice asking, What do you need right now advice? Or do you just need to vent your grown children asking for parenting advice can be a trap. If you give it you risk them resenting you and having it come across as criticism, even though they asked for it. And if you don't give it they will likely be upset too. I'm gonna leave this for you to decide what to do for yourself because there is no one right answer. There's no one right answer for any of life situations. We simply do the best we can in the moment, learn from it and try and do better the next time because there will always be a next time. Let me know what your takeaways were from this episode by leaving a review and don't forget to rate it, you can email Linda at normal dash lies.com Be sure to subscribe to this podcast so you know when the next episode is available. Thank you so much for listening.